WILLIAM BAKER / Pop Stylist
“ Whenever you put something on and you feel like an idiot,
then it is not really working ”
REVERED FOR HIS WORK WITH POP STAR KYLIE MINOGUE, WILLIAM BAKER IS THE EMBLEM OF THE STYLING INDUSTRY. MEETING AT HIS LONDON FLAT, THE MONTEBURY SPOKE TO WILLIAM ABOUT MUSIC, IMAGE AND THE IMPORTANCE OF KEEPING YOUR CLOTHES ON.
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THE MONTEBURY: WHAT WAS YOUR EARLY LIFE LIKE AND WHAT WERE YOUR FIRST STEPS INTO FASHION?
WILLIAM BAKER: I never really wanted to work in fashion, it just kind of happened over a few years. I had always been interested in fashion but I had been more interested in pop music. I didn’t have plans or a desire to be a performer but I was always drawn to the pop stars that were really fashion forward and visual, like Grace Jones, Madonna, Boy George, Bowie. I was growing up in the early eighties, which was a great time for pop videos, it was the peak. It was a new medium and it had loads of talented people working in it, and then in the nineties I think pop video matured. The people that had grown up whilst it was being perfected as a medium became directors. Growing up in the eighties and the nineties, it was a great visual decade for pop and it was that that drew me more than fashion. I accessed fashion through pop stars, and I had always had an enquiring mind, so it was never really about the music, I was more into pop imagery. I remember being obsessed with Jean Paul Gaultier and that gold Madonna corset, the pinstripe suit with the rips and all of the real pop imagery. It was also magazines in those days that had a pop fashion edge, like Face and ID. I think it was a lot more colourful than it is now. Like Vivienne Westwood in the eighties, it was all very poppy.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE INDUSTRY NOW?
WB: I think pop music has totally changed because of the internet and the way that music is sold, also the way that people listen to music, with ipods etc. Who buys CDs anymore? Nobody puts a CD in and listens to an entire album and all of the music channels such as MTV are full of reality shows. There is a lot less money than there was five years, and so there is not a lot of money for styling (what I do) and photography, but it has all become about the live show and the concerts.
DO YOU THINK IT IS IMPORTANT AS A POP STAR TO CHANGE WITH THE SEASONS RATHER THAN WORK ON YOUR LONG-TERM IMAGE?
WB: Everything now is so quick. The internet has lead to everything being so referenced and so easily accessible, whereas a few years ago it was almost impossible to find any pictures/videos of Grace Jones’ early stuff, or obscure Bowie stuff. What are now real mainstream references have become mainstream references because of the internet. |
“ When you can combine the power of music with imagery,
however simple, it is a really intoxicating formula ”
And because of that, people hunger for more and more and more. It makes everything quite disposable, and I would say inauthentic. I am not saying what I do is original, but for example, Lady Gaga. I think it is a bit ridiculous. I just don’t get it - it is not about looking good anymore. I think the people that she references, like Gareth Pugh, look good but she just looks like a mess. There is no consistency in her image apart from the fact that she looks ridiculous. You have seen everything that she does before, but I think that she is a great pop star. I think she has shot herself in the foot, because what is she going to do now? It is almost like what happened with Madonna in the early nineties, once she took all of her clothes off, that was it. All the mystery was gone and that was the end of Madonna’s best period.
SO, THE MORE CLOTHES THE BETTER?
WB: I think mystery is important. It is very difficult to maintain any sense of mystery now if you are a star. There is no mystery. It is the internet, like Perez Hilton, has a knock on effect. What is interesting, is that authenticity that you once got through a look, has become very manufactured. When I say ‘become very manufactured’ I mean that to my own detriment because the fact that the importance and growth of stylists as a concept, I don’t know whether that was a good thing or a bad thing. What has happened in pop music is that the live concert has become the most important thing because it is the true test of whether that artist can pull it off and connect with an audience, which is why people like Madonna and Kylie are such great acts. I think pop stars need to be authentic in different ways, because there are so many stylists around that are not really stylists. There are some that are incredible, but you go out and everyone is a stylist. |
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ONE OF YOUR MAIN BREAKTHROUGHS WAS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH KYLIE MINOGUE. LOOKING BACK, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BEST BITS OF THAT PARTNERSHIP?
WB: The best part was probably having the luxury of a relationship that lasted so long, because it enabled both of us to grow. We have grown side by side and with each other, for better and for worse, sometimes it has really worked and sometimes it hasn’t worked, but the positives outweigh the negatives. When I say sometimes it worked, certain things are more successful than others. I think for anyone to stay at the top of their game, they need to work with a lot of different people. That’s difficult with Kylie and I because we have worked together for so long, we have been the constant and everyone else changed. Over a time, you gravitate to designers that you work really well with and that are on the same wavelength and can interpret what you do. It is very rare that you get any creative partnership lasting as long as that and I think it is a great thing to be able to continually inspire each other. It is a challenge as well to be constantly excited and inspired because you can slip into repetition or it can become stale. At some points it has become stale, but that is one of the most exciting challenges, to keep yourself inspired. I guess it must be the same if you are a designer, the tenth fashion show must be like ‘what the fuck are we going to do?’. It can so easily become routine.
HAVE YOU REACHED THE POINT WHERE YOU HAVE BECOME YOUR OWN SELF-PERPETUATING MACHINE?
WB: No. I think that obviously as you grow up and do more and more, you realise that you develop something that is uniquely you. It is about what other people interpret you as. |
DO YOU THINK THAT IT IS DIFFICULT WHEN PEOPLE SOMETIMES INTERPRET YOU IN A WAY THAT YOU DO NOT WANT THEM TO?
WB: I think that one of the reasons I prefer working in pop is that I always found a certain side of fashion to be so snobby. When I started out as as a stylist, assisting people and doing test shoots, I found people to be so judgmental and so insecure, basically because there were so few jobs that everyone guarded their territory, which didn’t make me feel good about myself. There does exist a real snobbery in fashion between high fashion and pop music, which sometimes achieves remarkable crossovers. I think that in some ways it depends what it is, sometimes it is clever and sometimes it is just not, it is just a name for a name’s sake. I think Lily Allen is a really interesting one because she has really changed over the past couple of years and has become this fashionable, beautiful girl, from someone who was a bit awkward. When she started out, she never struck me as anyone who had good style, but I think she looks incredible now. Unlike Lady Gaga, who has just spunked her load and she ain’t pretty! |
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DO YOU THINK THAT EVERYTHING HAS BECOME LIMITLESS NOW?
WB: I think everything is quite delayed despite the high street now being so fashionable, with the trends being in the stores at the same time as they are on the runways. I think it is great when things become mainstream, because it is educational and inspiring, but I just think that it is a bit of a shame because nothing is really sacred and nothing is really special. You take things that are very dear to people, like club culture and the limelight scene in New York, and then it gets watered down and filtered through, which is the nail in the coffin. Anyone that is different is good because everyone is basically the same, looks the same.
WHERE DOES YOUR INSPIRATION COME FROM? IS IT ABOUT EVOLVING OLD TRENDS OR TRYING TO CREATE NEW ONES?
WB: I don’t think it is about trying to do anything. One of the greatest things about what I do, and through having a fifteen year relationship with somebody I work with, I don’t have to think about trends because I can do what I or Kylie wants. |
“ I think it is great when things become mainstream,
because it is educational and inspiring,
but I just think that it is a bit of a shame because nothing is really sacred ”
When I look back at things that have worked, they worked because we did what we wanted. It is always those things that seem to work whereas when you try to do something avant-garde or a bit different, it just doesn’t work. I think honesty is important in everything, and going back to Lady Gaga, I don’t think there is anything honest about her whereas there was always an honesty with Madonna and Kylie. In any kind of creative process, that honesty is really important, and there is not enough of that in fashion because people are so worried about what the other person is thinking. They are just trying to be fashionable instead of honest. I hate people that are judgmental. I mean, who am I to say that I have got anymore style than the person sat next to me on the bus. You can’t say that, you just have to do what you do. A lot of people take it seriously, but the people like Judy Blame and Katie England are really great stylists and are really honest. At times, you can tell that they do what they do, instead of thinking about being fashionable.
WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR FAVOURITE PROJECT TO DATE?
WB: Generally, I love doing Kylie’s concerts, because they are huge undertakings with so many elements. It takes the best part of nine months to put a tour together, so everything is really focused. It is amazing that something that begins as a thought becomes a reality. When you see the size of the sets, the lights, the people, it is a joy to be creative like that. You have the luxury of quite a lot of money to be able to do that. Although, I have done jobs where there hasn’t been a lot of money and the thrill is still there. A lot of people find it difficult to understand what I do (I sometimes find it difficult), but I directed (creatively) a performance that Leona Lewis did on X Factor last year, which I was expecting to be nothing. It was so simple, but it was one of the most amazing experiences ever because she is an incredible singer. When you can combine the power of music with imagery, however simple, it is a really intoxicating formula. I would never have thought that a five-minute thing on the X Factor would be one of the things I am most pleased with.
WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BE A GOOD STYLIST?
WB: I don’t think I am a stylist anymore. For me, it ended up as being a creative director, overseeing photography to clothes to performance. All those things are very stylistic, and style informs all of those things. It is very weird talking about it because it is such a natural process for me. I think of things very visually, I see things in pictures almost like a photograph. |
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WHAT BRANDS DO YOU LIKE TO WEAR AT THE MOMENT?
WB: Dolce & Gabanna. I think it is really hard to find stuff that fits you. Over the years you find designers that dress your shape. I love what Dolce & Gabanna do with menswear, it is great and appeals to the homosexual in me. I know it is probably not the coolest thing, but I think Italian fashion is not taken as serious as something like Lanvin. I cannot wear Lanvin - I love it but I look like an idiot in it. I cannot even get into Balenciaga anymore, and I am not big. I love Balenciaga, I used to wear a lot of Balenciaga.
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR OWN PERSONAL STYLE?
WB: Normal, really. I sound so boring, but I like feeling comfortable. I like simple things. I tend to wear the same thing and the same kind of shape. I have millions of pairs of jeans that are all basically the same. I don’t like things with big logos but I love how tactile Lanvin is - I always want to go and touch the sweaters and coats. I bought loads of Stephen Sprouse’s Louis Vuitton collection and I have never worn any of it, but I just love them. I am always doing that. I have loads of Judy Blame jewellery that I would never wear anymore, but they are my favourite things to look at. I have a Lanvin pea coat that I love and I have loads of Dolce & Gabbana v-necks. I love b Store and their take on menswear. I love that it is really masculine but is interesting and wearable. I still feel like me when I wear it. My favourite ever was when Helmut Lang did his own label. It was really classic but there would be one detail that would be really different. Whenever you put something on and you feel like an idiot, then it is not really working. There are parts of Galliano that I love, but I don’t know who wears Galliano’s menswear. They are party pieces, but does anybody go to those parties anymore?
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— December 2009
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